90% aller Obdachlosen sind ohne Vater aufgewachsen

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Die Sekundärquelle wäre insofern höchst interessant, weil man klar sähe wer da diese These wie in Szene setzt. Sowas ist natürlich höchst aufschlussreich. 

Aber da @dgbrtduck sich ja seit dem ersten Beitrag nicht mehr gemeldet hast, werden wir wohl nie erfahren, aus welcher yt-Schleuder das stammt. 

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Am 14.8.2019 um 02:33 , Juice Terry schrieb:

Die Statistiken sind Bullshit und schon auf den ersten Blick wird klar, wozu sie da sind.

  1. Sie wollen Frauen die Schuld an männlicher Obdachlosigkeit zuschieben. Wenn ein Mann im Leben nicht klar kommt, dann kann es nur daran liegen, dass er von einer Frau dazu erzogen wurde. Obwohl Männer deutlich häufiger obdachlos sind, sind aber trotzdem Frauen schuld, nämlich ihre Mütter. Na klar.
     
  2. Sie wollen Obdachlosigkeit zu einem Ergebnis von Schwäche und fehlender "Männlichkeit" umdeuten. Hätte der Gute mal einen Vater gehabt, der ihm ordentlich die Härte des Lebens beigebracht hätte, dann wäre er nicht obdachlos geworden.

In solchen Fake News spiegelt sich die ganze Widerwärtigkeit von toxischer Männlichkeit und autoritärem Denken. 

Dass Männer einfach nur Menschen sind, dass sie manchmal psychische Probleme haben (ohne dass Frauen schuld sind) und dass sie manchmal nicht mehr klar kommen und im Leben scheitern könnten, das kommt in den gefühlstoten Matschbirnen dieser Schwachköpfe überhaupt nicht vor. 

Aber, aber... Jordan Peterson sagt doch auch, dass es stimmt - und der ist Wissenschaftler, so wie Batman!

Spaß beiseite...

Dem ersten Teilsatz bin ich tendenziell (in bezug auf den Großteil der Statistiken, vielleicht abgesehen von der Suizidrate und den letzten beiden Punkten) geneigt zuzustimmen (schlichtweg aus Plausibilitätsgründen). Den Mittelteil finde ich dann schon etwas gewagt (vielleicht soll die Aussage ja auch einfach nur sein: Hot News! Väter sind NICHT überflüssig), bei der Feministen-Buzzword-Party ("toxische Männlichkeit, autoritäres Denken") bin ich dann leider ganz ausgestiegen. Deine flammende Verteidigungsrede des weiblichen Geschlechts entbehrt auch nicht einer gewissen Ironie, da dich ja ebenso fragwürdige und wesentlich häufiger zitierte Statistiken wie der unbereinigte Gender-Pay-Gap (inkl. der regelmäßig implizit enthaltenen Schuldzuweisung an das böse Patriarchat voller toxischer Maskulinität und widerlichem autoritären Denken) in der Regel überraschend kalt lassen...  Aber vielleicht verhält es sich dort ja auch einfach anders: Wenn eine Frau im Leben nicht klarkommt (wobei "nicht klarkommen" hier statt Suizid/Obdachlosigkeit o. ä. dann (in hiesigen Breiten!!!) heißt, dass sie bei Teilzeitarbeit frecherweise weniger Verdient als ein Mann bei Vollzeit), dann ist WIRKLICH der Mann Schuld 😉 

Am 14.8.2019 um 06:36 , Deborah schrieb:

Geschenkt.

[By Trish Wilson, © 2002 All rights reserved by author

"Mainstream" fatherlessness statistics come not from valid sources but from father's rights organizations. They are used to denigrate single and divorced mothers. These specious statistics have made it to the Ways and Means committee. [See the Statement of Bill Wood, and Jay Gell, Children's Legal Foundation, Charlotte, North Carolina.]

...

Fathers' Manifesto is well-known for its misogyny, anti-semitism, racism, and homophobia. It is cited as a hate group by Stop The Hate, Google Web Directory - Hate Groups, and The Hate Directory, (Ethnic, Racial, Religious, Ethnic, Gender, Sexual Orientation Based Hatred On The Internet). This site includes the Fathers' Manifesto Talmud Survey and main Father's Manifesto web sites. There is also an HTML version of this web site. Fathers' Manifesto is cited as "Cranky" at Crank.Net in the categories chauvinists and politics. It's described as "Fighting feminism, ending affirmative action, and restoring responsible fatherhood."]

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/79c4/ab7cc226d0db49fa4eb4e61181d12f4a9237.pdf

Vielleicht solltest du fairerweise an das "Debunking" die gleichen Qualitätsstandards anlegen wie an die kritisierten Statistiken...

Zitat

DEBUNKING FATHERLESSNESS: CHILDREN FARE WORSE IN "FATHERLESS HOMES" Myth: Children in "fatherless homes" have fared poorly over the past three decades.Fact: "In recent years, the lives of America's children have improved in measurable ways, according to a new collaborative report from federal agencies. America's Children 1999 shows that youth are less likely to smoke, die and or be victimized by crime, but they have made fewer gains in areas that predict their economic futures... Among the report's most positive results is a 40 percent drop in serious violent crime involving juvenile offenders since 1993." Some indicators of child wellbeing have gone down; but others have gone up.   Wo ist da der Widerspruch??

Zitat

DEBUNKING FATHERLESSNESS: ACADEMIC DIFFICULTIES/LOW S.A.T. SCORES Myth -- "1% increase in the rate of fatherlessness SAT scores declined 3 points..." (per The False Child Abuse Industry by John Knight for Fathering Magazine) Fact: "Culminating a decade of steady improvement, US high school students who took the SAT this year posted the highest math scores since 1969, according to scores released yesterday." "Nationally, the SAT scores released yesterday continue a roughly 10-year trend. Scores declined throughout the 1970s and early 1980's, but they stabilized in the mid-1980's and have risen steadily since then. Many attribute the initial drop to the fact that a far larger and more diverse group began to take the test." [SAT math scores best since 1969 Figures reflect steady US climb; Mass. students keep up the pace; The Boston Globe; By Scott S. Greenberger, Globe Staff, 8/30/2000] Wieso wird mit der Überschrift der Anschein erweckt, dass der (gut belegte!) negative Einfluss von väterlicher Abwesenheit auf Schulerfolg im Allgemeinen dadurch "debunked" sei, dass (möglicherweise) eine ganz spezielle These dazu widerlegt widerlegt wird? Das entspricht ungefähr folgendem Argumentationsmuster: FAKE NEWS! Gemüse hat gar keinen positiven Einfluss auf die Gesundheit. Eine Studie hat nämlich gezeigt, dass Spinat gar nicht so viel verwertbares Eisen enthält wie immer behauptet wird!

Zitat

DEBUNKING FATHERLESSNESS: JUVENILE DELINQUENCY AND JUVENILE CRIME Myth -- Juvenile delinquency is caused by "fatherlessness." Fact: "Studies have shown repeatedly a consistent relationship between juvenile delinquency and large family size, marital disharmony, alcohol abuse in parents and overall social deprivation. A consistent relationship has also been shown with delayed reading age, below average scores on intelligence and achievement tests, conduct disorder of childhood and parental aggressive behaviour." [Kelly, Mary, Bernadette Mackey, and Michael Fitzgerald, A TEN-YEAR DESCRIPTIVE FOLLOW-UP STUDY OF 50 DELINQUENT BOYS, British Journal of Clinical and Social Psychiatry,April 1999, Vol. 10 (1999) , no.1 http://www.scpnet.com/paper4.htm] Wieso widerlegt eine Korrelation mit (oder sei es gar eine Kausalität bedingt durch) WEITERE(N) Risikofaktoren, dass hier (ebenfalls) ein Kausalzusammenhang bestehen könnte? Multikausale Zusammenhänge zeichnen sich gerade dadurch aus, dass das Vorliegen einer Ursache NICHT ausschließt, dass eben auch andere Ursachen vorliegen KÖNNEN.

 

Am 15.8.2019 um 06:54 , Deborah schrieb:

Sie bezieht sich auf folgende Studie (Auf einigen evangelikalen Seiten ist die Quelle ausführlicher angegeben):

U.S. Census Bureau, 2009-2011 American Community Survey, 2012 Condition of Children in Orange County, America’s Families and Living Arrangements: 2012 by Jonathan Vespa and Jamie M. Lewis

 

Doof nur: Die Zahl taucht da überhaupt nicht auf.

 

Ich halte deshalb sämtliche Aussagen für frei erfunden.

Basierend auf einem vergeblichen Quellencheck den Schluss zu ziehen, dass "sämtliche Aussagen frei erfunden" seien, entspricht auch nicht meiner Definition von Logik.

Denn genausogut könnte ich sagen:

Zitat

Fatherless boys and girls are: twice as likely to drop out of high school; twice as likely to end up in jail; four times more likely to need help for emotional or behavioral problems. [US D.H.H.S. news release, March 26, 1999] Census Fatherhood Statistics

scheint plausibel, siehe hier:

image.png.c493feb7ad9ba9c85fa859b094996134.png

(https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_10/sr10_178.pdf)

Also folgere ich daraus, dass alle anderen Statistiken auch korrekt (plausibel) sind. 

Darüber hinaus kann ich aber auch deine folgende Behauptung nicht nachvollziehen:

Zitat

Sie bezieht sich auf folgende Studie (Auf einigen evangelikalen Seiten ist die Quelle ausführlicher angegeben):

U.S. Census Bureau, 2009-2011 American Community Survey, 2012 Condition of Children in Orange County, America’s Families and Living Arrangements: 2012 by Jonathan Vespa and Jamie M. Lewis

Warum gehst du nicht mit gutem Beispiel voran und postest den Link? Davon abgesehen, stehen in der (möglichen Fake-)Statistik 2 "Quellenangaben": US Dept. Of Health/Census. Meine Vermutung wäre daher (falls die Statistik eine Grundlage besitzen sollte), dass die Censusdaten eher zur Ermittlung des Verhältnisses alleinerziehende Mütter vs. alleinerziehende Väter dienten und dieses dann pi mal Daumen mit einer Statistik des US Health Dept. über Selbstmordraten von Scheidungskindern verrechnet wurden oder aber dass sich das US Dept. of Health auf Census-Daten bezogen hat.

 

Am 15.8.2019 um 08:18 , Deborah schrieb:

Das Center for Disease Control and Prevention veröffentlicht umfangreich Daten.

Leider ist auch hier nichts zu finden.

Vieleicht liegt es daran, dass weder Obdachlosigkeit noch Vaterlosigkeit eine Krankheit oder Seuche sind und die Behörde sich mit anderm beschäftigt?

Oder daran, dass sich das Center for Disease Control sehr wohl mit solchen Themen (wahlweise als Risikofaktoren für Krankheiten oder als Fokus-Zielgruppe) befasst und du einfach schlecht bist im Suchen?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_10/sr10_178.pdf

Was man in den Tabellen wunderbar ablesen kann:

Die Aussage " 85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes " ist in der Tat Blödsinn (ist auch unplausibel hoch, denn das hieße im Umkehrschluss, dass in intakten Familien (die weit häufiger vertreten sind) Verhaltensauffälligkeiten praktisch nicht vorkommen). Richtig ist aber, dass in vaterlosen Haushalten der Prozentsatz an gesundheitlichen Problemen bzw. Verhaltensauffälligkeiten ggü. den Kindern aus intakten Familien erhöht ist:

Zitat

The overall behavioral problem score (acount of the number of problem behaviors) was Iowest forchildren living with both biological parents, slightly higher for those Iiving with never-married  mothers, and highest for those living with formerly married mothers or with mothers and stepfathers.This pattern was repeated for the scores for antisocial behavior, anxiety or depression ,headstrong behavior, hyperactivity, dependency, and peer conflict or social withdrawal.

Was aber zunächst nichts aussagt, da eben z. B. auch der Anteil von niedrigen Einkommen in dieser Gruppe erhöht ist. Wenn man das ganze dann im Rahmen (nach erstem Augenschein) seriöser Studien betrachtet, in denen weder Zahlen erfunden, noch ohne den Einbezug von Kontrollvariablen irgendwelche Schlüsse gezogen werden, dann kommt man etwa zu solchen Ergebnisen:

 

Zitat

 

ADVERSE OUTCOME 1: Perceived Abandonment

Children who grow up without their fathers may come to resent paternal-figures due to perceived abandonment. These feelings may burgeon from a lack of trust and result in a heightened sense of anger. As a child grows into adolescence and young adulthood, these problems may contribute to contact with the criminal justice system, use of illicit substances, as well as a variety of mental health problems. These consequences may result in interpersonal dilemmas including the inability to develop strong social bonds. For example, anger stemming from abandonment can make it difficult for juveniles to establish friendships and relationships (Poehlmann, 2005). 

ADVERSE OUTCOME 2: Attachment Issues

Attachment refers to the deep emotional bond that develops between a caregiver and a child (Bowlby, 1988). Children who come from a father-absent home are more likely to experience attachment-related problems than those from a two-parent household (King, 1994; Furstenberg & Cherlin, 1991; Seltzer, 1991). This may result in serious emotional issues throughout the lifespan. The inability to form a strong caregiver bond is associated with hypervigilance to anger and a misappropriation of hostile intent to neutral stimuli, both of which may result in conduct problems in the child. Such misconduct may have the unintended consequence of creating difficulties in the development of friendships and healthy romantic relationships (Hirschi, 1969; Jensen, 1972; Johnson, 1987). The active involvement of a father with his children can promote empathy and self-control for the child throughout life.

ADVERSE OUTCOME 3: Child Abuse

Many previous publications have linked the absence of a father in the home to higher risk conditions for mothers and their children. Children that grow up in such households are much more likely to be the victim of physical (including sexual) abuse and neglect compared with those who grow up in a two-parent household (Smith, Selwyn, Hanson, & Nobel, 1980). Children who grow up in a single parent home are twice as likely to be the subject of physical and/or emotional abuse (America’s Children, 1997). In addition, the absence of a father results in an increased psychological burden on the child, as he or she must make sense of why his or her father is not present. This burden extends beyond the child to alternative caregivers such as the child’s mother. Indeed, the needs of a child are hard to meet, even when a mother is very loving, committed, and caring. When children are surrounded by multiple caring adults (e.g., mothers, extended family members, community members), they are more likely to thrive and feel supported. If the mother is the only caregiver of the child, mounting stress over the considerable responsibilities of parenthood may increase the risk of her harming her children or herself.

ADVERSE OUTCOME 4: Childhood Obesity

Children with higher body mass indices (BMI) are more likely to come from father-absent homes (Finn, Johannsen, & Specker, 2002; Strauss & Knight, 1999). Another study found that a father’s parenting style was a better predictor of whether a child would become obese (Wake, Nicholson, Hardy, and Smith, 2007). Fathers who were present and used more authoritarian parenting styles had children who were more physically fit than fathers who were absent and, if sporadically involved, used more of a permissive approach. Mothers’ parenting styles had little to no effect on obesity and fitness levels.

ADVERSE OUTCOME 5: Criminal Justice Involvement

Family structure and the lack of paternal involvement are predictive of juvenile delinquency. The more opportunities a child has to interact with his or her biological father, the less likely he or she is to commit a crime or have contact with the juvenile justice system (Coley and Medeiros, 2007). In a study of female inmates, more than half came from a father-absent home (Snell, Tracy, & Morton, 1991). Youths who never had a father living with them have the highest incarceration rates (Hill, O’Neill, 1993), while youths in father-only households display no difference in the rate of incarceration from that of children coming from two-parent households (Harper and McLanahan, 2004). In addition, children who come from father-absent homes are at a greater risk for using illicit substances at a younger age (Bronte-Tinkew, Jacinta, Moore, Capps, & Zaff, 2004). The absence of a father in a child’s life may also increase the odds of his or her associating with delinquent peers (Steinberg, 1987).

ADVERSE OUTCOME 6: Gang Involvement

A high percentage of gang members come from father-absent homes (Davidson, 1990), possibly resulting from a need for a sense of belonging. Gaining that sense of belonging is an important element for all individuals. Through gangs, youth find a sense of community and acceptance. In addition, the gang leader may fill the role of father, often leading members to model their behaviors after that individual (Leving, 2009). Having a father in the child’s life greatly reduces the likelihood of a child joining a gang (Leving, 2012).

ADVERSE OUTCOME 7: Mental Health Issues

Coming from a fatherless home can contribute to a child having more emotional problems, such as anxiety and depression. Fatherless children may start thinking that they are worth less than other children who have fathers and wonder why their father abandoned them. This may also lead to an increased risk of suicide and/or self-injurious behaviors. Children who do not grow up with a father are also more likely to be aggressive and exhibit other externalizing problems (Osborne & McLanahan, 2007). Children from a father-absent home are also more likely to become depressed, have suicidal thoughts, anxiety, social withdrawals, and school absences if they see or hear their parents fighting (Flouri, 2007). The mental health aspects associated with divorce on children will be discussed in a future article.

ADVERSE OUTCOME 8: Poor School Performance

Evidence suggests that not having a father at home may have a negative impact on a child’s overall academic performance. Research has shown that children who come from a father-absent home are more likely to drop out of school when compared to children who live in a two-parent household (Whitehead & Holland, 2003; Popenoe, 1996; Blankenhorn, 1995; McLanahan, & Sandefur, 1994; Sampson, 1987). Children from father-absent homes are also less likely to pursue higher education (Keith & Finlay, 1988). It is important to note that African American boys who identify their father as their role model demonstrate significantly higher grade point averages and are less likely to be truant from school (Bryant, 2003).

ADVERSE OUTCOME 9: Poverty and Homelessness

According to the U.S. Census Bureau (2011), children from absent-father homes are four times more likely to be living in poverty. Often children with an absent father also have less networking connections to aid them in the working world (Coleman, 1988). Furthermore, studies have shown that the cause of the father’s absence matters little in relation to poverty and divorce (U.S. Bureau of the Census, 1998; McLanahan & Casper, 1995). Poverty also presents a obstacle for children pursuing well-paid jobs, which can result in increased stress and frustration (Cloward & Ohlin, 1960; Merton, 1957). Children from father-absent homes may also be more likely to shoplift and become chronic shoplifters (Manning & Lamb, 2003).

ADVERSE OUTCOME 10: Substance Use

Children who grow up in a home where a father is not present are at a greater risk for abusing alcohol and other drugs (Hoffmann, 2002). In one study, researchers examined the impact of father-absence on African American boys (Mandara & Murray, 2006). According to their findings, the boys who came from a home without a father were more likely to use drugs than boys who came from a home where a father was present. Involvement of a father can, hence, be a protective factor against child and adolescent substance use.

https://www.mnpsych.org/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_dailyplanetblog%26view%3Dentry%26category%3Dindustry%20news%26id%3D54

 

oder

Zitat

image.png.b5739c686e3ebeefefca25623d799887.png

 

To start with, we have shown that in line with the previous literature, there is a significant disadvantage associated with the absence of fathers in almost all the OECD countries analysed for the cognitive outcome analyzed here, i.e. scores in mathematics. Most of the research conducted so far is based on single-case studies and typically looks at either cognitive indicators or final educational attainment (see McLanahan et al. 2013 for a review). This paper adds to this literature by systematically studying international patterns of both cognitive and non-cognitive child outcomes associated with living in a household where the father is absent. On the one hand, we have documented existing country variations in the characteristic disadvantages of children’s fatherless households. On the other hand, we have demonstrated that the penalty associated with an absent father is larger for mathematics scores than it is for locus of control in all countries. In fact, the country-specific estimated effects of father absence on non-cognitive skills (locus of control) were often not statistically significant. This suggests that absent fathers seem to affect the educational opportunities of their offspring more through cognitive rather than non-cognitive mechanisms.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10680-017-9414-8#Bib1

oder

Zitat

The literature on father absence is frequently criticized for its use of cross-sectional data and methods that fail to take account of possible omitted variable bias and reverse causality. We review studies that have responded to this critique by employing a variety of innovative research designs to identify the causal effect of father absence, including studies using lagged dependent variable models, growth curve models, individual fixed effects models, sibling fixed effects models, natural experiments, and propensity score matching models. Our assessment is that studies using more rigorous designs continue to find negative effects of father absence on offspring well-being, although the magnitude of these effects is smaller than what is found using traditional cross-sectional designs. The evidence is strongest and most consistent for outcomes such as high school graduation, children’s social-emotional adjustment, and adult mental health

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3904543/

oder

Zitat
"Although there is abundant literature on single-parent families, much of this
literature tends to focus on scrutinizing the mother rather than considering the
impact of the absent father. This perspective promulgates a mother-blaming
position (Jackson and Mannix, 2004; Phares 1992). Clearly, father absence has an
impact on the health and well-being of children and may have an impact that
reaches much further than adolescence. Father absence appears to contribute
significantly to life adversity factors, including maladaptive behaviour, poor
academic achievement, low self-identity and risk behaviour, including early
sexual relations and drug use."
 

Im Klartext: Dem Anschein nach hat das Fehlen des Vaters auch nach Berücksichtigung von Kontrollvariablen einen negativen Einfluss auf die kindliche Entwicklung.

bearbeitet von tonystark
  • VOTE-4-AWARD 2

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